Transcript with Show Notes Embedded:
Kevin Raub: I love the food, I love the architecture. It’s a city that’s not too big and not too touristy, but touristy enough and big enough. You’re not going to run out of restaurants, you’re not going to run out of cultural things to see and do. There’s a ton of museums, the university is here so there’s always cultural things going on and events. I always recommend people go up one of the towers because the view is amazing and the towers are very famous here.
Kathy McCabe: This is Kathy McCabe. Welcome to the Dream of Italy podcast. You know me from the PBS Travel Series Dream of Italy and the award-winning website and publication. Join me as we explore the sights and sounds of Bella Italia. From the canals of Venice to the piazzas of Puglia. From the fashion houses of Milan to the vineyards of Tuscany. Hop on, it’s going to be a great ride. Andiamo!
I’m Kathy McCabe with the Dream of Italy podcast. We’re doing a great series on where to live, where to move and where to retire in Italy now. I think one of the great unsung cities of Italy is Bologna. I have Kevin Raub here today. Are you there Kevin, are you frozen?
[01:17]
Kevin: Hello people, I’m here.
Kathy: You look so…
Kevin: I was just watching you do your thing.
Kathy: Mesmerized. So Kevin Raub, if you don’t know the name because I get many compliments on your articles…
Kevin: Oh, fantastic.
Kathy: He writes regularly for Dream of Italy, but Lonely Planet is his main gig and he is partnered up with one of my favorite Italians in Bologna, a wonderful woman named Alice. Going to give her a little hype. They have a son and live in Bologna. When I was putting this together I thought, okay we’ve got to talk to Kevin about life in Bologna, especially from a male perspective too or an American perspective. That’s what I like about the series we’ve done, I talk to all kinds of people, men, women and all different ages. What was your first impression of Bologna when you first went there?
Kevin: Bologna was actually the second place in Italy I ever went long before I met Alice. I don’t have a lot of memories. I know the hotel that I stayed at and I know that our concentration, we had one night and was just find the best ragù. But I can’t remember for the life of me what restaurant we ended up picking and I’ve spent about six years trying to figure it out and I just can’t figure it out. But then when I came to do Lonely Planet’s update of Emilia Romagna and I met Alice, that’s when I really started digging in deep to Bologna. I was here for initially eight days, which is a lot.
Kathy: A lot for you. Long for you.
[02:53]
Kevin: Yeah, eight days for one place is a lot unless it’s New York City or something. If it’s my first time somewhere for Lonely Planet I tend to plan a couple of extra days so I can make sure I get the lay of the land. Then I started really liking it. I love the food, I love the architecture. It’s a city that’s not too big and not too touristy, but touristy enough and big enough. Living here you’re never going to get tired of the… I mean you might get tired of the food because all the restaurants serve more or less the same regional food, but you’re not going to run out of restaurants, you’re not going to run out of cultural things to see and do. There’s a ton of museums, the university is here so there’s always cultural things going on and events. It’s not like a really small place in Italy where you’re going to run out of things to do. That’s what I like about it. If I get tired, I travel a lot so I can go…
Kathy: Yeah, you get a good… and it’s so close, right? Are you going by train a lot?
Kevin: I only go by train if it’s in Italy. Otherwise Bologna’s airport is actually fantastic. I mean you can get everywhere. You’re not going to get everywhere direct, but a quick change in Frankfurt or London or Dubai depending on where you’re going, you’re off and running with just a little bit of a stop. A lot of times it’ll be a stop in Germany or France or somewhere and then you can use that time in the airport to pick up some things that you can’t get in Italy maybe, so that’s always nice.
Kathy: Yeah or have some different food.
Kevin: That’s one of my complaints about Italy is just that…
Kathy: Tell me.
Kevin: I tell people the best thing about Italy is the food, but the worst thing about Italy is the food. Because if you want anything else you’re either going to have a pretty bad version of it or you’re not going to find it at all unless you live in Milan and to a certain extent Rome. Bologna is 98% Bolognese, rightfully so, they have a very incredible and rich culinary history.
[04:59]
Kathy: Oh so good.
Kevin: So if I want a taco, there is one taco place now that’s pretty decent.
Kathy: Oh tell us the name, do you remember?
Kevin: Oh Maiz. There’s a Mexican who lives here that we know that got her seal of approval. If we could just get a good Indian then I’ll be a little bit happier.
Kathy: Oh I know. Have you had any good Indian in Italy somewhere?
Kevin: I just went to a place in Merano.
Kathy: Oh.
Kevin: What was it called, I had this Alpine… yeah Alpine Curry I think is the name. I was pleasantly surprised. I told them afterwards, I’m like look I spent a lot of time in India, I suffer a lot here because Bologna’s dearth of it, there’s three or four places but none of them are actually great. I’m like this actually did the job. Congratulations. I don’t know why they ended up in Merano or whatever, but it’s not close enough obviously to pop over whenever, but I was pleasantly surprised. There’s little surprises even in smaller places than Bologna, they’ll sometimes for whatever reason be some incredible Thai restaurant or something. You just never know where the chips are falling.
Kathy: I had amazing Chinese food in Torino.
Kevin: Chinese… Torino has some good stuff. Chinese is okay. Chinese is not one that I suffer from. I mean it’s slightly different, Bologna has an amazing Sichuan place that’s totally legit.
Kathy: What’s the name of that one? We’re just getting the food…
[06:31]
Kevin: Amole. A-M-O-L-E. He’s from Sichuan and if you order something spicy, it’s going to light your ass up. They’re not easing back on the throttle because they’re in Italy. You ordered this, you’re getting it. The waiters will be like, it’s really spicy, I don’t know if you should… I’m like, bring it on. That’s what I want.
Kathy: Right, right.
Kevin: They do not disappoint. But I think in general the Chinese is okay, sushi’s okay, I mean it’s not LA or Japan or whatever, but there’s some decent sushi. But it’s the other things. It’s the Thai, the Vietnamese and the Mexican…
Kathy: We’re so as Americans… I know you haven’t lived in America in a long time. As Americans we’re just used to having so many choices.
Kevin: When I left the US, I was living in LA and I could walk to 50 different cuisines in 15 minutes. That part, you never… at least me, it depends on your personality I guess, but that part I just cannot get used to. So even when I go to Rome or Milan, instead of going for risotto or cacio e pepe, sometimes I’ll be like I need…
Kathy: I get it.
Kevin: Lebanese. If I’m there for a couple days I devote at least one meal to that craving or even a good burger. Bologna has a…
Kathy: Do you include… sorry I do have actually a few of your books. Do you include a lot of those in the book or not really? Like in an Italy book?
Kevin: I put Amole in this time.
Kathy: Wow. Okay.
Kevin: But that’s the only ethnic. Now if you’re doing Milan or Rome or somewhere big enough to support other restaurants, then you would put a few in just for the people who are like, I’ve been here for seven days, pasta, pasta, pasta and pizza, I need a burger. Like I remember one time when I was updating Lisbon, someone wrote why would you put a burger place, Lisbon has a really great burger place by a Danish guy. Why would you put a burger place in the Lisbon city guide? I’m like, I have 40 restaurants. So one or two can be non-Portuguese for the people staying a bit longer or who just might be a little sick of eating Portuguese every day and they want to change it up.
[08:36]
Kathy: Absolutely. It’s definitely necessary. So what are the Bolognese like? What are the people in Bologna like in your experience?
Kevin: They’re tough to pin down.
Kathy: Gonna get you in trouble. Or not trouble.
Kevin: They’re tough to pin down. I mean I don’t want to say anything bad about the south, but I feel like the further south I go, the less I like the people.
Kathy: Really? Those are my people!
Kevin: I know, I know. I mean you get that guy who’s like the butcher or the one guy at the restaurant who’s the super stereotypical jovial character and there’s a lot of those in the south and those people are fantastic.
Kathy: Okay.
Kevin: But just like when I’m in the streets in Naples or Salerno, it’s just a little bit too chaotic and loud for me. It reminds me more of South America than it does of Italy. I find the further north I go I like people more, although when you get into Alto Adige then you get the more stern Austrian personalities. I find Bologna is right there in the middle, you know. But big enough that you have everything. I mean whatever percentage of the population here is from the south anyway, Calabria or whatever.
Kathy: That’s what’s so interesting. I was interviewing someone in Torino and they’re like, yeah everyone’s from the south.
Kevin: Yeah.
Kathy: So that’s super interesting.
Kevin: I like the mix. Bologna has such a mix and not only of different nationalities but also just people who’ve mixed in.
Kathy: Right. So it feels…
Kevin: I find Italians a bit dark in general regardless of where they are. Darker than I’m used to. I lived eight years in Brazil and Brazilians are kind of the opposite, they’re like everything is good, everything is happy, they’re very jovial even when shit hits the fan. They’ll just go to the beach and that’s sort of their life attitude. Here it’s a little more dark. It’s more like the Portuguese. The Portuguese are also a little bit darker I think.
Kathy: Or like cynical or nothing’s going to work out?
[10:43]
Kevin: Yeah, like not super bubbly or optimistic. I mean you get those people, they’re here, but if I’m generalizing, the average person in the street maybe is a little darker than what I’m used to or what I would think of as American. Americans are too far on the other side because they’re fake. They’re fake happy or fake joy, they’re friendly…
Kathy: Yeah.
Kevin: But a lot of it is because they want a tip or just because it’s what you’re supposed to say. Like if you actually ask how’s your day and someone says well my uncle has cancer, they’d be like whoa, I don’t really want the real answer.
Kathy: I told you Kevin would tell it like it is. I wanted to interview you because you’re going to tell it like it is. I love that about you. That’s the part of Italy, Italians are complicated. More than the dream, life is not easy either for them.
Kevin: Yeah, not everyone is like in the movies.
Kathy: No, it’s not like in the movies. But Bologna did get voted the happiest place in Italy.
Kevin: Really?
Kathy: Yeah, I did a little Instagram thing on it. Is it because it’s part of Romagna? I keep hearing when I’m in Emilia Romagna, oh the Romagna part they’re more friendly. Do you ever hear that?
Kevin: I don’t know. Those kinds of distinct regional details are very hard to suss out when you’re not…
Kathy: To pick up, especially as a foreigner sometimes.
Kevin: Yeah, like people say the people in Veneto they drink, they’re all alcoholics, they drink so much. I spend a ton of time in Veneto and I don’t see anyone drinking any more or any less than anywhere else that I go in Italy. So I don’t know. And like Tuscans are hard-headed and all these regional stereotypes that Italians say, whether there’s any truth to them or not. I think it’s just harder to suss out if you didn’t grow up here.
Kathy: So, now you guys have a little boy. How old is he, five?
[12:52]
Kevin: Yeah, he’ll be six in October.
Kathy: So now he’s probably in school, what are your sort of impressions of the Italian school life?
Kevin: He’s in his last year of scuola materna.
Kathy: Okay. The preschool.
Kevin: Yeah. He starts next year, first grade. I mean it’s very different than what I’m used to, from every aspect.
Kathy: How? I’m so curious.
Kevin: Starting next year, you know how in elementary school or at least in middle school you change classes, you have different teachers for different subjects, you change the kids and you change the teachers. Here it’s the opposite. You’re with those kids all day and you’re with that teacher all day.
Kathy: Oof. Hit or miss.
Kevin: Yeah, exactly. It’s great if the teacher’s great and the kids are great, but it could be potentially awful if the teacher is terrible. I appreciate the diversity of switching classes for example. The thing that really gets my blood boiling is the strikes. The strikes are constant.
Kathy: Oh yeah. Danielle who works with me, she’s in Rome, she has little kids like you and it’s like there’s just a strike right? Every week.
Kevin: Yeah and they’re not even strikes because it’s not a strike if you say we’re striking on Friday for one day. That’s pointless. The management is not going to give in to whatever it is you want if you tell them you’re ending…
Kathy: The planned Italian strikes are really something.
[14:36]
Kevin: It’s a protest, it’s not a strike. So I don’t even know why I say the word strike. But I just think I did not have one day of my entire education disrupted by a strike. I mean we’ve had some notable teacher strikes in the US over the years, but not one day did I miss and he has probably already missed 40. And he’s not even in elementary school yet.
Kathy: Wow. And then daycare, I know Alice works, does she go to an office and you have to find a way to take care of your child, right?
Kevin: We live in San Lazzaro which is a suburb and daycare is free.
Kathy: Okay.
Kevin: So you just pay the food bill which is like 80 euros a month or something.
Kathy: Right. But if there’s a protest and the teachers don’t come…
Kevin: Yeah. I work from home so it’s usually me who has to pick it up or we ask nonna. But yeah I mean that’s what they’re trying to do, disrupt things for parents, but I’m like well it’s not the kids’ fault and it’s not the parents’ fault. So you’re going after the wrong people. That is really hard to deal with. What I love the most I would say is the food. I mean the food is ridiculous compared to the… our food is so bad that we eat in school. It’s junk food. They have a menu that’s like three courses as if you’re at a fairly decent Italian restaurant in Kansas. I mean it’s really impressive and you can go and try it because they always invite parents, you can go one day to do a taste test. And it’s not gourmet Italian, but it’s good.
Kathy: Decent.
Kevin: Compared to what we ate. I just laugh at it and I think God, I don’t know how any of us made it.
Kathy: There was so much milk involved.
Kevin: Milk and pizza. That square pizza that we all know about. Or you would just be like I’ll get a chocolate milk and tater tots.
Kathy: Yep.
Kevin: That’s what you lived on for eight years of middle school and high school. It’s just really terrible. So I like that. They do a lot of excursions, they do more excursions than I remember doing at that age. Like they went to a cave on Friday and they went to some other nature park on Monday.
[16:50]
Kathy: Cool.
Kevin: We’ll see. Next year is going to be a new ball game, but he’s going to a school 30 meters from our house so we no longer have to take him in the car.
Kathy: That’s great. And does he speak English fluently and Italian fluently?
Kevin: Speaks both fluently and now he’s to the point where he translates and he also has started making fun of… they’re bringing in his after school… the school ends at four and then 4 to 5:30 for working parents they have post school which you pay extra for. One day a week they’re bringing in an English teacher to work with these five-year-olds. Austin now is making fun of how the person pronounces these words.
Kathy: Wonder where he gets that from!
Kevin: Not from me, I don’t make fun of how Italians pronounce English words! But I think teachers should pronounce things appropriately. He notices that they’re not pronouncing things right. We had a meeting with his potential teacher next year who happens by coincidence to be the English teacher and her English was okay, so I was worried and then I was pleasantly surprised. But she must be shitting in her pants.
Kathy: She has this little half American…
Kevin: She must be like oh man the gig is up. I can no longer fake it with these first graders because this kid is going to be like nah, that’s not right. We’ll see.
Kathy: You think first grade would be easy, right? Yeah. Do you know other American parents or other Americans in Bologna?
Kevin: Yeah, we have a group of friends. Only one of them is both American, we have a good friend who works for Furla which is based in San Lazzaro.
[18:33]
Kathy: Nice. I didn’t know that that’s where Furla was. Furla is fantastic.
Kevin: Yeah they got a very nice little villa. They actually moved her from New York City, she’s head of international operations or inventory or something like this. They’ve lived here a while and they’re both American, but everyone else is one American one Italian and one Canadian one Italian. So we have a little group of people. We like to try to expose Austin to other cultures basically and since we only go to the US once every year or two…
Kathy: Yeah. Just to be around other people who speak English besides you…
Kevin: And Alice speaks English like 50/50 anyway.
Kathy: Are you going this summer to the US?
Kevin: The summer for six weeks. Him and I are going two weeks ahead of time and then she’s coming for the last month, six weeks total.
Kathy: Very nice. Welcome back!
Kevin: Yeah, we go to Texas which is not the sexiest for me, but it’s great for all the things you miss like great tacos, great barbecue and all the food is straightforward. And my sister has a pool so…
Kathy: Oh that’s… you’re set. If you’re five or six or 15, you want a pool. Anything else like what other things about Bologna for people… I know housing can be tough to find.
Kevin: Housing is really tough here unless you can throw money at the problem. So if you’re looking for a normal rent between let’s say a thousand and 2500, you’re going to have a really hard time. But if you have 4,000, there’s an amazing place in Bologna that you can probably find. It’s really just the people who have enough to price themselves out of the problem. Otherwise it’s a big problem. I mean students come and they don’t have housing.
Kathy: Oh.
[20:36]
Kevin: It’s really really tough. I think this is a problem Italy-wide.
Kathy: It is, from the people I’m interviewing, it really is.
Kevin: It’s European-wide. It’s just a lack of space. They just don’t have the space that it requires to build and they’re not willing to do like Hong Kong or something and build up. They’re not going to build an 80-story skyscraper in Bologna to put in apartments. I don’t know what the solution is, but I know that it’s hard and we were very lucky.
Kathy: How’d you find yours? Just word of mouth?
Kevin: We’re in a co-op, do you know how this works?
Kathy: I think in New York City I kind of know. Like that?
Kevin: I don’t know if it’s the same, but we rent but at lower than market value. And you pay something like 25 to 30 grand to get in.
Kathy: Right.
Kevin: Well first you get on a list to get in. We had Alice jump the line because her mom made her a member many years ago which is a really smart thing she did. So if you’re already in or you have a family member in you can jump the line. Alice went to a meeting last night and there’s 700 people in the line, so that’s going to take forever. But we somehow said we wanted to live in San Lazzaro and within three months we were looking at this apartment. So once you’re in and you’re like okay I want this apartment, it’s like a 25 or 30,000 euro deposit fee and then they use that money to invest and operate and whatever that everyone pays. If you move you have… and then you have the right of use for 100 years.
Kathy: Okay, very European.
Kevin: Yeah and it’s considerably lower. Like our rent is like 586 or something for a two bedroom and what is apparently the wealthiest suburb in Bologna.
Kathy: You lucked out.
[22:39]
Kevin: And the cool thing about the money, the surprising thing about the large chunk of deposit is that if you move out you get it back.
Kathy: Completely, like the whole amount? Wow.
Kevin: So if you have that money, which we didn’t, but her parents chipped in, her mom and dad both chipped in. Then yeah, you’re in and you’re in for less rent. Like this apartment would probably be 1300 if it were on the normal market.
Kathy: Yeah. Wow. Are there many co-ops or it’s just here and there?
Kevin: There are in Bologna, there seems to be…
Kathy: It’s a very like left liberal…
Kevin: Yeah I guess. I had never heard of it and of course right of use for 100 years is not going to be that useful to anyone. But my grandma’s turning 105 next month so maybe it could be used.
Kathy: Oh my God, what’s her secret?
Kevin: I don’t know but she’s actually a step-grandma, but she’s been my grandma since I was one, so for me she’s my grandma but no blood relation unfortunately, although I don’t know if I’d want to live to 105.
Kathy: Yeah, I’m not so sure. They’re talking now like with AI everyone’s going to live… and I’m like I don’t know. I mean it’s okay, I don’t need to live to 150 or 120.
Kevin: 105 sounds like a lot. My sister was like, well if you have all your capacities, I’m like yeah okay but it’s more the money. Once you retire you got to live an extra 25 years.
Kathy: Yeah. Well the funny thing you’re talking about space in Italy and Europe, the big thing literally the last two weeks in the US is these data centers. Are they building data centers in Italy? Or you don’t know?
Kevin: They are, because our neighbor, my only neighbor who speaks English and he has a kid Austin’s age so we hang out a lot. He works in English at… I don’t know the name of the place, but there’s a European initiative data center that is being built and it’s like 80% built and there’s a couple of things in there. He is working at one of these data centers. But it’s not the size of a high school or anything. It’s a size…
[24:49]
Kathy: Oh the ones here are of course.
Kevin: Yeah, I mean…
Kathy: Just a small building in…
Kevin: Yeah, it’s not small but it’s not like some kind of obnoxious…
Kathy: Right.
Kevin: And it looks very high-tech so it does stand out against the traditional architecture but it’s not in the center.
Kathy: Because like, where are they going to put them in Italy?
Kevin: Well there’s space in the countryside for things.
Kathy: Sure, but I mean that’s sad too.
Kevin: Imagine in the Tuscan hillsides.
Kathy: Oh my God. Because they’re full of light, there’s a lot of electricity. We can’t…
Kevin: Yeah, there’s a limit of energy. But it brings constant jobs because another problem here is there’s not a lot of jobs. So it’s hard to get a job and there’s I guess positives and negatives to it.
Kathy: It’s very hard. And so I think that’s one of the big overarching things. If you’re coming with a remote job and you work for an American company it’s great.
Kevin: Or if you have a retirement fund or you have a job. If you’re coming to find a job, I wouldn’t recommend that to anyone. Unless you have a highly specialized job, they would have brought you here anyway. You wouldn’t need to be coming on your own to shop yourself around.
Kathy: Right.
Kevin: That part is difficult and of course not speaking the language is going to be a major deterrent.
Kathy: How’s your Italian?
Kevin: It’s okay. I speak Spanish and Portuguese so…
Kathy: That’s good.
Kevin: Yeah, Italian is like fourth on my list.
Kathy: So you have some basis.
[26:29]
Kevin: I have some basis. I minored in Italian at university but I didn’t spend any time.
Kathy: You get the verbs, the grammar is the killer for me.
Kevin: Yeah no, I speak only present, a little bit of past.
Kathy: Me too. That’s all we’re doing.
Kevin: Also now Alice gets mad at me, but my concentration is not that, it is Austin’s English since I’m solely responsible for that.
Kathy: Right. That’s good.
Kevin: I’m old and a fourth language at this age is like ugh, but I don’t die or anything, if I’m off running around by myself I’m fine.
Kathy: Yeah, well you’re doing all this. What else should people know? Well, Bologna is so well situated to go to other places. There’s so much going on, the food, you cannot beat the food in the good way.
Kevin: Or the food prices and Bologna is not even cheap, but…
Kathy: compared to the US…
Kevin: Oh the prices are crazy.
Kathy: And it’s gotten, you’re going to be shocked in August, I think even the last six months.
Kevin: Oh yeah, my sister has warned me, they went to some place somewhere nowhere that wasn’t an expensive place at all and they couldn’t get out of there for less than 120 for two people and I’m like yeah…
Kathy: Oh it’s shocking, it is shocking.
Kevin: We’ll be barbecuing by the pool.
[27:56]
Kathy: Yeah. No, it is really shocking. What do you like the most about Bologna?
Kevin: The food. Yeah.
Kathy: What’s your dish? Like when you go on a Sunday, what’s your thing?
Kevin: Lasagna probably.
Kathy: Lasagna. Yeah.
Kevin: I just wrote a little thing in the Lonely Planet about that, of all the Bolognese dishes I think lasagna is my go-to. But I love a tagliatelle al ragù and…The one that I don’t like that everyone loves is tortellini in brodo. I don’t dislike it.
Kathy: I love it. Yeah.
Kevin: I just don’t, it doesn’t do anything for me.
Kathy: What about mortadella?
Kevin: If I have it I like it, but the concept…
Kathy: You don’t seek it out.
Kevin: Yeah. I mean it’s like fancy bologna. But I love something with mortadella cream or something, but eating just mortadella with a toothpick doesn’t do much for me.
Kathy: Now you are the travel guy and I know we have an article from you on Bologna or maybe two. What is… you’ve given us a couple, well where’s your go-to for this lasagna?
Kevin: I decided the two best, one is the fancy gourmet version which is Al Cambio.
Kathy: Okay.
Kevin: It’s a little outside the center. So you have to want to go there. A little fancier, very nice wines. Also for their ragù, tagliatelle al ragù is amazing too. That’s the best fancy one and then I just went to a very old school restaurant that in the 70s was the best, was the place. I had never been before and they sort of went through hard times in the 2000s and now they’ve sort of revamped themselves and that’s Diana. And they’re known for their lasagna and it is very very good as well, but totally different. It’s like the one that nonna would slap down on the table, it’s a little sloppier. Two people can eat it, it’s a massive serving. The one at Al Cambio is a controlled portion, it’s for one person. So those are my two favorites. But you’re not going to have a bad…
[30:05]
Kathy: You can’t go wrong. No.
Kevin: That’s the thing even if you’re in a gas station they have some thing and you’re like this is pretty amazing.
Kathy: Oh gas station, I know you never know when you’re going to come across something amazing. What about when visitors come or maybe people you know come to Bologna, what are one or two your favorite things to do or museums or activities?
Kevin: I never end up going to museums, I always recommend people go up one of the towers because they’re amazing and the towers are very famous here. I usually take them to Piazza Santo Stefano which I think is the prettiest piazza in Bologna. I take them to a restaurant called Bertozzi which we used to live above during COVID, but we moved when Austin was born. It’s sort of considered by locals to be the best version of a traditional trattoria and the two guys are real characters like the ones that you think about from a movie. It’s also a sort of de facto hub for the Bologna football team, so I wouldn’t recommend going on game days because it’s a rowdier crowd. But it’s a really solid place and it’s about 800 meters out of the center so you have to know about it. I like sending people away from tourists and it’s not a huge problem in Bologna but other places it is.
Kathy: Oh yeah.
Kevin: I like to send people places where they’re going to be probably the only English speakers or the only tourists at least.
Kathy: I gotta ask you, it’s great that we never really talk, it’s great to talk. I got to ask you this. This overtourism thing in Italy. So now you’ve been living full time and do you see more people than ever or not really?
Kevin: Oh for sure. After COVID everything increased and especially in Bologna because Bologna I wouldn’t have even said it was touristy before COVID.
Kathy: You would have never used that word, yeah.
[32:05]
Kevin: No and now when you’re in the center, there’s tourists everywhere. There’s groups, there’s people carrying the flag talking into the microphone and you didn’t used to see that. I mean it’s not on the level of Florence or Venice or anything like that but it’s still for me at a comfortable level, but I know that for some locals it’s starting to become too much and Airbnb and all the…
Kathy: Yeah. Have they cracked down at all or not really?
Kevin: I’m not sure what Bologna has actually done but there’s plenty of Airbnbs. I saw that Barcelona was banning it completely.
Kathy: Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin: I don’t know if that’s the answer but I just think they should say there’s X number of licenses for Airbnbs. It’s like taxi medallions. You can’t just go to New York City and be like I’m gonna drive a taxi.
Kathy: No.
Kevin: There’s a limited number of medallions they get passed down, somebody has to die, then you can buy one or whatever and just control it that way. I saw that London was saying something like oh you can only do a certain amount of nights per year, but that doesn’t solve the problem because…
Kathy: That doesn’t. No.
Kevin: You can’t rent it, nobody’s going to rent it and be like oh I’ll leave the 40 days that you can Airbnb it. So that just creates a problem on both sides. I don’t know what the answer is, but it’s good in Bologna because Bologna doesn’t have a lot of amazing hotels, not a lot of boutique hotels.
Kathy: No, hopefully if I come I’ll call you guys. I think I might come and I was looking up, you have to tell me which ones do you like or do you know them?
Kevin: Boutique I mean Metropolitan is good. There’s a new one starts with…
Kathy: Brun?
[33:40]
Kevin: Yeah that one’s nice.
Kathy: That’s the most expensive, yeah.
Kevin: No, the most expensive has to be the Majestic.
Kathy: Oh I didn’t know if that came up on my search. I’ll look.
Kevin: Majestic is where Lady Gaga stays.
Kathy: Oh yeah I’m not going to that.
Kevin: But Brun yeah, they were a real pain when I went for Lonely Planet to inspect, they did not want to show me a room and I had to fight with them hard. But I got in. It’s very nice. There’s a couple more around there and then there’s I forget the name of the one that I really like but it’s not a full service hotel it’s just a room but really nice rooms.
Kathy: Let me know a few, we’ll put it in the notes here. Now your neighborhood, do you recommend that? San Lazzaro, do you recommend that?
Kevin: San Lazzaro is great, it’s a lot of parks, it’s known for parks so we have a lot of parks everywhere, right across the street, a big one not too far away. And there’s just space you know, you can park and it has everything, I don’t have to go to Bologna. It has almost everything, doesn’t have a lot of restaurants but it has a great pizzeria, a great craft beer bar and a great cocktail bar. Plenty of grocery stores and all the other services that you need. But if I need to go to Bologna it’s an 8-minute train ride so.
[34:58]
Kathy: Okay, I was going to ask a train or a bus, that’s really easy.
Kevin: The train station’s 50 meters away so it’s very easy.
Kathy: Oh man, you guys lucked out. That’s great.
Kevin: We did really luck out. We like it a lot.
Kathy: Great. Well thank you so much for talking to me. Now if people want to find, what is your social handle again?
Kevin: raubontheroad, so it’s R-A-U-B on the Road on Instagram, basically I only really am messing with Instagram these days.
Kathy: Yeah, TikTok will take you down a hole.
Kevin: Yeah no, I was on TikTok for like 5 minutes.
Kathy: Yeah but I’m like watching it too much, it’s too much. Too much going on.
Kevin: And all my Instagram posts go onto Facebook so I don’t otherwise do much on Facebook but…
Kathy: Yeah. Okay we’ll have these in the show notes at dreamofitaly.com/podcast. Thank you for talking to me about Bologna and life.
Kevin: Okay, thanks for having me.